Property Manager Sarah Penman, Team Leader at Penman Properties, joins Adam and Matt to explain why short-term rentals might lead to long-term headaches and the best way to buy a revenue property. Plus, a new segment called The Five Wire.
Intro: Hello, hello. This is the Vancouver Real Estate podcast.
Adam:And welcome back to Vancouver Real Estate podcast. I’m your host, Adam Scalena.
Matt:And I’m your other host, Matt Scalena.
Adam: And Matt, you’re not as fired up as you were last time.
Matt:Oh, it’s hard to replicate that type of fire.
Adam: For sure, we had a…
Matt:I am excited, I am excited though.
Adam: Well, we got a lot of emails from you that you could sense the passion in our voices in last week’s episode.
Matt:And we were talking about our favorite subject so it’s not a surprise.
Adam: Investing, yeah, the 6 ways to find a deal in any market. If you haven’t heard that episode, go back and listen.
Adam: It’s one for the ages.
Matt:Yeah, one for the ages. We’re speaking for the high-minded about our podcast. It’s going to go down in history for sure.
Adam:Yeah, yeah. It’s the best thing you’ll ever hear. So be sure to go back.
Matt: But this episode is not so shabby either.
Adam: No, no. I’m not trying to undersell this episode, it’s a little bit better than last week’s. And we’ve got Sarah Penman property manager, Penman Properties.
Matt:Yeah, and Sarah was our inaugural guest so she came on basically a year ago to date to explain what was going on in the rental market. And a lot has changed. And I was just talking with Sarah…
Adam: Huge changes for sure.
Matt:AirBnB has shifted their policy due to city pressure. The city’s policies obviously changed quite a bit. Stratas are cracking down, there’s the new empty homes tax. A lot of changes that have impacted the rental market so it’s worth listening to this, there’s a big shift, a big shift going on.
Adam: Yeah, we’ll unpack that a bit more in a minute here but before we get to today’s episode we do have a new website that you’re going to want to go check out.
Matt:You most certainly will VancouverRealEstatePodcast.com.
Adam: It’s the #1 source for on the ground Vancouver real estate news with the city’s best insiders.
Matt:Yeah. Exactly. It’s an awesome resource. You’re going to want to sign up as well for the VREP Live Wire.
Adam: VREP Live Wire? You never know what you’re going to get.
Matt:Yeah, but it’s going to be good.
Adam: For sure. Let’s sign up.
Matt:That’s the new newsletter.
Adam: Sign up for the new newsletter. And guess what? On today’s episode we’ve got a new segment, it’s called the Five Wire. So we’re going to be releasing that at the end of today’s episode.
Matt:We’ve got a lot of exciting changes. Another change is Scalena Real Estate and the Vancouver Real Estate podcast are growing.
Adam: Yeah. So we are hiring, thank you so much for people that have actually submitted.
Matt:We’ve got a lot of applications…
Adam: Some fantastic ones as well.
Matt:Yeah, yeah. So thanks for everyone for reaching out. We are still taking them though.
Matt:Not for very much longer but…
Adam: This week we will accept a few more applicants till probably Sunday or so but if you do want to apply you can send your resume or you can send the link to another person.
Matt:That you think is going to be a good fit for sure.
Adam: Yeah. email@example.com
Matt:Yeah. Or you can check out the job at http://www.vancouverrealestatepodcast.com/blog
Adam: Okay. So enough with the website. Let’s move on, how was your week?
Matt:Real busy week. It’s a really busy week. I mean there was a ton of things that happened. First off, I had my shoes, socks and jacket stolen.
Adam: That’s what came to mind, you’ve had a really busy week.
Matt:Yeah, I had to buy a new jacket.
Adam: How did you get…?
Matt:No, what happened, so here’s the story. I was at an appointment with kids – I have a 5 year old daughter of course, she swims at the pool in the west end…
Adam: The Aquatic Center?
Matt:The Aquatic Center, yes, blanking on the name there. So she starts at 5:30, I was getting there at 5:45 to catch her in the pool for 15 minutes. I’d never seen her swim there so my wife said “Hey, go through the change room, if you don’t have a quarter don’t worry, put your jacket, your shoes in the locker and then join us in front of the pool, that’s the best place to see the little kids area.”
Adam: So you put it in the locker…
Matt:So I took off my jacket, I was wearing a suit and a nice overcoat. Overcoat, brand new shoes and a nice pair of socks. Put them all in the locker and I was in the pool area for about 10-15 minutes and it was gone.
Adam: So wait, are you sure did you check all the lockers?
Matt:I did. Which was kind of embarrassing in and of itself, you know, bare foot…
Adam: Yeah, all the time I’m the guy that has to open up 110…
Matt:I couldn’t believe it, yeah. I was like okay, am I losing my mind? Now, this is the locker so you know, I’m going locker after lockers, there’s a bunch of guys looking at me, suit with bare feet with panicked look on his face.
Adam: So how did you figure out that it was stolen?
Matt:Well, no, what happened was – so it wasn’t there. I had to walk upstairs to the information booth, wait in the line in my bare feet, get to the front and I said to her “You know what? I put my jacket in a locker.” She said “Did you lock it?” I said “No but I’ve only been here for 10-15 minutes.” She said “No, you take 2 minutes, it’s gone. Long gone.” So the worst part was I had to then walk out of the Aquatic Center and it was cold actually. It was a cold night bare foot with a suit, no jacket to my car which was parked quite away watching for glass and everything else. And yeah, it was a horrifying experience but anyway, I got new jacket already.
Adam: I feel he is going to be telling this story while lying on a couch in future years.
Matt:Well, let’s put it this way, she doesn’t swim there anymore and she’s grounded. Well, that was one thing that happened but I mean there’s another thing. This has been a busy week.
Adam: This has been a busy week, yeah.
Matt:Another thing, I mean we should say the market seems to be picking up quite quickly.
Adam: For sure.
Matt:Last 10 days we’ve been very, very busy. We were just talking before we went live here, me personally, I was in 3 different multiple offer situations but there was a downtown one bedroom and den condo that I wrote on, there’s 14 offers.
Adam: 14 offers. And I’m hearing that, anecdotally I’m hearing that all over the market, particularly in condos…
Matt:Yeah, it really seems to be picking up.
Adam: …under 800,000.
Matt:Yeah, and we’ve been seeing that for a while and I think it still holds true that it’s kind of under that price point but it’s really busy out there. I think part of it’s an inventory issue, there’s not a lot out there to buy.
Adam: Yeah, and that’s just it. I mean I think we’re still in the hangover phase of the foreign buyer tax for sure. But what I would say is that even though houses have come down 10-15% they’re still out of reach for most people, right? So a lot of the local market is going after condos and town homes, it is kind of that seems to be really, really active in the submillion dollar range which is a very local price point. And yeah, supply is limited.
Matt:Yeah. The other thing that was interesting about that one multiple offer situation specifically was so I did the market analysis for my client and what I told him was I was thinking kind of mid to high fives was somewhere it was going to lend. Kind of 550 to 580 range, it was priced below that, 580 being kind of on the high end based on previous comps. Now, if this was 6 months to a year ago it probably would have hit 6-10, you know?
Adam: Sure, sure.
Matt:Because we were just in situations like that, people are willing to pay way over what the comp suggested.
Adam: And it was a rising market, it was rising very quickly.
Matt:Exactly. In this case it sold subject-free but it sold for 5.72 which I think was on the high end of the comps but still, in my mind whoever got that didn’t overpay. So I don’t think that this is suggestive of or that one situation is suggestive of a market that’s going to start rising 2-4% every month again. It’s just interesting. It’s very competitive but the prices seem to be more in check.
Adam: And it would be interesting to see what happens with the inventory in the spring. I mean we’re obviously coming up on a spring market. Right now inventory is very low. It’ll be interesting to see what happens if the supply starts to reach the demand, right?
Matt:Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So the market in short order here, last 10 days really picked up. There was a thaw over the Christmas, there was a lot of snow, right?
Adam: Well, the snow has gone, yeah. That’s a big thing.
Matt:And it does seem to be picking up quite dramatically. And then last, of course Christy Clark introduced the changes to the foreign buyers’ tax.
Adam: Right. And we’ll see what kind of impact this has on the market if any. So basically what she’s done is she’s allowed people with work permits now to avoid paying the tax.
Matt:Yeah, exactly. And we had Mac Kerman, that was episode 21. He was that animator from California that got caught up, he’s buying his first home…
Adam: $90,000. Huge.
Matt:Yeah, I mean a millennial, looking again to the market and he got caught. Luckily he managed to push his dates up to avoid that August 2nd deadline so it was a good ending for Mac. But that was a fantastic episode and it’s guys like him, people like him that are going to be saved from that 15% who are living, working and paying income tax in Vancouver. So I think this is sort of a smart change.
Adam: Right, so it’s been an interesting week in our real estate market but Matt…
Matt:Especially that jacket story, huh. It was fascinating. Anyway.
Adam: Yeah, exactly. 10 minutes on the jacket and 2 minutes on the market. But before we get to…
Matt:It was traumatic, come on.
Adam: Yeah. But before we get to our interview with Sarah just quickly, there’s been some changes in how the city is interpreting short term rentals and rentals in general.
Matt:Yeah, I mean so Sarah really talks in this interview more so about AirBnB’s changing policy which was really interesting. She’s saying it’s actually, of course it’s a pressure from the city I guess. They don’t want to get kicked out of the Vancouver AirBnB or short term rental market altogether so they’ve made some dramatic shifts that have really impacted her business and anyone looking to do short term rentals. The other component that we don’t really talk about is that new empty homes tax that’s on Vancouver proper.
So it’s funny, we’ve never actually addressed it. Thought it would be useful just to talk very quickly about what the empty homes tax actually means. So it’s for anyone who owns a property that is not their principle residence in Vancouver and who haven’t rented it out for a 180 days of the year for periods of at least 30 days. And so if you have that empty condo, empty home you’re going to be hit with a 1% tax on the assessed value which is…
Adam: … it could be substantial.
Matt:Hey listen, I have a guy looking to potentially sell a one bedroom condo. He is from the island, he’s got kids here, he comes in maybe once a month for 2 days, you know, a weekend basically to see his grandkids. And he is saying look, on the assessed value that’s close to $5,500 for a downtown condo, on the top of the property taxes that he already pays, on top of the strata fees. I mean he is looking at close to a $100,000 a month carrying cost and over 600 of those are going to be the property tax.
So you know, it’s significant for a lot of people and don’t get me started on the assessed value of the west side, some of the west side homes. That’s going to be huge. So that’s something that Sarah doesn’t covers much but that is a lot of those homes are either hitting the market for sale or they’re hitting the rental market and that’s going to have an impact as well.
Adam: For sure. So Matt, without further ado let’s get to our interview with Sarah Penman.
Matt:Yeah, that’s a good one. Enjoy guys.
Adam: Okay, so we’re here with Sarah Penman from episode 2 and with Penman Properties. How are you doing Sarah?
Sarah:I’m doing well, how are you guys doing?
Adam: Doing well. Doing well. So a few of our guests who haven’t listened to episode 2 might not know Penman Properties so can you tell us a little bit about yourself and your company?
Sarah:Sure, yeah, no problem. We’re a field service property management company. We work for both tenants and owners covering all the way from Surrey and Langley out to [inaudible 12:48]. On the tenant side we help tenants compete with all of the many applicants that come into, applications that come in for every property each month. And then on the owner side we just make sure that the owner’s homes are being taken care of very, very well and not being destroyed by tenants. And we work from anything from a studio apartment all the way up to multimillion dollar homes.
Matt:So last time we had joined Sarah it was kind of the heat of the market, we had just began the podcast. A huge portion – how many doors do you guys look after now, just as an aside?
Sarah:Over about 300 or so.
Matt:Wow. So you’ve expanded considerably since you were on the podcast but when we spoke to you last a considerable portion of the rentals you looked after were AirBnB, short term VRBO type of rentals. Has that changed?
Sarah:Yeah. Yeah. There’s been a lot of massive changes in that side of the market that stem from the proposal that the government made that [inaudible 13:58] from that which kind of scared AirBnB. So the market has changed drastically. How much do you want to know?
Adam: Maybe a good starting place is just to talk about the empty homes tax. Can you talk to that a bit?
Sarah:I don’t really see too much on the empty homes tax. What I see is the follows. So for example like the owners that can afford to leave their homes empty they don’t really care about if you charge them more. That’s not affecting the right people, right? The people that I see it affects the most are the people that can’t afford to leave their homes empty because they need help with the mortgage because they bought the property because they know that they’re going to get some income in for it.
So those are the people that I see affected. The tax doesn’t affect any of my more well-off owners that don’t care if their units are rented or not. You don’t see that. And most of those owners don’t work for – we don’t work for them because they simply leave it empty as opposed to hiring us to keep them filled.
Matt:Right. And so we were talking last week Sarah and you were saying that AirBnB’s response is actually something that a lot of people don’t know about and it’s really impacted the short term rental industry.
Sarah:Yeah, it’s actually affected both short term and long term markets greatly. So what happened is the government made a proposal that’s going to restrict AirBnB use in Vancouver. And if you break it down into a very layman sense AirBnB was like oh wow, we’re going to get kicked out of this city as a whole which they have in many other major cities in the world. So they needed to do something.
So from the very top they without telling a lot of their underlings or managers down below so when you call AirBnB you get somebody from some city and you never really know how high up the scale they are. And most of them didn’t know what these policy changes were that they were coming.
So we just got a call one day saying that “Are you a property management company?” I said yes, of course and they said “Okay, well, we’re putting a new policy in called one host, one home.” That’s okay, what’s that? And they basically have decided that in order to keep the community feel of AirBnB that they are only going to allow home owners who live in the home to list that home or suite within that house that they own and live in to list on AirBnB.
So there was no warning, it was one day’s warning that all of our, I think it was 60 something properties at that time were going to be unlisted the next day with no ability to relist whatsoever.
So obviously that greatly affects us but it also affects the investors who don’t live in their condo. Okay, that’s a one bedroom condo that they’ve bought for investment purposes that they have to find a new way of generating income for that because they don’t live in that home, they technically can’t list on AirBnB either.
Adam: So how did your team respond Sarah?
Sarah:Well, I literally had to prepare all of those owners that there was going to be a great decline in what their income was. AirBnB did allow us to keep the reservations that were previously booked by the time they unlisted all our properties. So it wasn’t like they had zero income coming in but there was no ability to fill calendars.
So I had to prepare all those owners and then after that I just looked, I searched for another venue for them to kind of do the same thing so I looked, I researched homes, HomeAway, CanadaStays. There’s about 20 different companies that I looked at into including VRBO as well. CanadaStays is the Canadian version of the VRBO.
And it’s just I broke down all the pricings, I pretended that if we were going to really list with them and give 60 properties and what was the best they could do for me, I kind of went with that to my owners and did, I don’t know, probably 2 weeks of research on it while trying to deal with the aftermath of everything.
And it just doesn’t makes sense to list on those property sites I guess because or vacations sites I should say because it’s either you’re adding another cost so the people don’t want to work with us are doing it because they’ve hired us because they don’t have the time to manage it effectively without damage to their homes. By that I mean properly vetting the clients, making sure the communication with the clients and expectations, all of the things that make us successful and why people hired us, they don’t have time to do.
So they’re paying money out of what they’re making to us already and then to pay – you know, I got them down to like about a $1,000 a year per property. But that’s a $1,000 more that they’re having to pay on top of paying us and that’s just based on my big amounts or large amount of properties that I was going to give to this site. So it’s just the costs of listing on those sites is substantial.
So after doing all that research in the end it’s not worth it. And I’m not going to mislead my clients so I just told my clients there’s not a venue that I can work on that makes sense for you to still list with us for short term. So we’ve gone away from it. We’ve listed all of our short term properties. I’ve either advised them to sell the property or to go long term. And obviously the choice to do either sell or to go long term depends on what their break point is each month. So if I can get them a break point , get them an amount that is above that break point then it would be listed long term and if it wasn’t achievable then I advise them to sell.
Matt:Wow, so I didn’t actually understand this. So you’re out of the short term rental game it sounds like.
Sarah:We are other than over 30 days. So we have a lot of business executives that come into town for a month here and there or a couple of months or a lot of people from Microsoft that come in for 3 month contracts, 6 month contracts. So we still do those kinds of executive shorter term rentals but definitely not the nightly that we used to do.
Matt:So what type of impact have you seen on long term rentals then?
Sarah:Well, it flooded the market. So just make it really simple to understand. There used to be estimated around 5,300 one bedroom units listed on AirBnB and within one day that went down to 3,000, just under 3,000. 2,800. So you had that difference, that amount of properties with no source of income in one day’s notice so all of those people rented or listed on the long term market. So any time you have an oversupply like that your prices, the achievable prices plummet. So it basically tanked the market.
Matt:Just to be clear, these are furnished long term for the most part?
Sarah:Yeah, the furnished long term market absolutely tanked because all those 2,000 something, 2,500 properties and that’s just one bedrooms, those were taken off the short term market and listed on long term furnished. And the long term furnished market absolutely tanked. I actually looked at the numbers of what we achieved last year to this year in that market and I like to pride myself on the prices I can get for my clients and I wasn’t even able to achieve close to what I did last year. It was about I would say $400 less a month with the exact same unit because of it being so saturated.
Adam: So how does that compare then, Sarah, to the unfurnished market?
Sarah:The unfurnished market it was always – furnished market used to be more. You always used to be able to achieve higher incomes with furnished. What it did then, the unfurnished market never changed. It’s about the same but there’s less of a supply of it and demand is always there, right? So that stage just as high. The long term furnished market dropped significantly. So it’s below what you would get if it was unfurnished. We get about 20 emails a day or we did during that 3 months of overfloodedness. We had everyone ask us can you unfurnish the apartments? People need unfurnished and there’s not enough of them and they go too quickly but there’s a massive amount of furnished markets listed.
Adam: So there would obviously be a cost that people had to absorb to actually remove to furniture as well.
Matt:And find something to do with the furniture, right?
Adam: Yeah, exactly. So do you see is the market stabilizing? I mean this is a huge a change and there’s over a couple hundred units suddenly hit the market. At this moment is it stabilized?
Sarah:It’s starting to come out now, like it started to stabilize now. We normally take a maximum amount of listings each month so that we can do our jobs effectively because we need to be able to show a property without – if you list your new property at the same time you spread yourself too thin. So we for those 3 months leased 5 properties over our regular backs and we carried about 6 from month to month because the owners wanted us keep the price where it was but they didn’t want it to drop to what it needed to be based on the market changes.
So we carried a few properties through. But it has started. We’ve actually now – we only have one furnished unit still listed right now and it’s just got listed a couple of weeks ago so it’s not something that we’ve been carrying so it is starting to balance back out and the prices will slowly come back but it’s going to take a long time before you see the price points that were achieved in the past. There’s not as many units on the market so the supply is not as substantial as it was but the prices haven’t come back up yet.
Matt:So Sarah, obviously with everybody shifting towards longer term rentals, I’ve talked to a few people that have short term rentals themselves and they’re seeing this as an opportunity that the market of course is small, there’s not as many units doing AirBnB type units. What are your thoughts on that?
Sarah:Yeah, there’s definitely not many people are doing AirBnB. Whenever you take the ease of something out of a situation, less people use it as well, right? So in my opinion this is definitely making Vancouver not an attractive city to visit. We don’t have Uber and now they’ve made AirBnB more difficult. And because there’s less supply on the AirBnB market, like less units listed, those owners that are still listing have jacked their prices because they can.
So for both the person coming to town it’s a losing battle for them because they’re looking at higher prices for something that they would have gotten for $50 less a night but that’s just simply because there’s less on the market so they can put that price. So take AirBnB, they still haven’t achieved what they were trying to do. But the empty home tax and this both have not affected what they tried to affect. You want that vacancy rate to improve while the long term furnished market and the unfurnished market are completely different markets. Taking all these units off AirBnB doesn’t put them back on the unfurnished market. So that hasn’t changed.
Adam: So Sarah, we get this question all the time from people asking what type of rentals they should do, what they should buy. So if we were to give you a million dollars and ask you to buy a revenue property for us…
Matt: Or more than one.
Adam: Yeah. What would you buy and how would you rent it?
Sarah:You want to make sure that you’re hitting all the points of what makes it the most marketable, right? So you want to be in a good location and you want to make sure that you’re close to transportation, it’s easy to get in and out, you’re not in an area where traffic is constantly congested. And when it comes to the type of unit you also want to make sure that you’re hitting – the one bedroom markets are the most achievable.
So depending on how much money the client has, one bedroom is a good way to go because they’re more marketable than a studio but at the same time they cost more. Two bedrooms, there’s less two bedrooms and three bedrooms. The higher amount of bedrooms you go up the less there are so supply and demand works in your favor. With one bedrooms there’s always more. There’s tons of one bedrooms on the rental market all the time. And that’s because investors can get in at that point so if you’re able to afford a good enough down payment or large enough down payment to afford a two bedroom you’re going to make a higher profit if you can afford it. But it’s all about the numbers.
What we always say is with all the realtors that I work with, as you guys know, you’re more than welcome to shoot me the listing when you’re looking at properties and I can tell you the marketability of it and give you a really rough quote because that way you’re going in educated, right?
So depending on where your numbers would be at, you want to make sure you’re not buying something where you’re leaving only a small range for any error in what you can achieve each month. That’s what you saw really affected by the changes with the people, the owners that didn’t have that large range of what they could make that they needed to make a certain number, those are the people that were forced to sell. You don’t want to buy something that you’re going to be screwed on because you didn’t set yourself up for success, right?
Adam: Sarah, a lot of people ask us about what kind of cap rate they could expect to get in Vancouver. Is that how you guys operate based on cap rates and what’s achievable in our city?
Sarah:When I do our comparables we kind of do them similar to how you would subset your price for a sale. We look at what I personally at the company, we’ve rented in the past, what we’ve achieved in the building. We look at strata management company in the building. We look at past rentals from other companies. I look at what’s listed on the free sites now, like Craigslist, Kijiji and [inaudible 28:01]. We look at all of those to see how much is on the market now.
For example we listed a Paul’s Creek property last month and it was late in the month. So the pricing, the comparables you’re going to see there’s not much left on the market because it’s the end of the month and then within a week there were about 6 properties within a one block radius that were listed for all lower price points. So that brings down your price point that’s achievable. So it’s really that whoever is studying your prices they’re aware of the fact that you have to kind of adjust bi-weekly on what’s been listed…
Adam: Okay, so as many of you know we have that new newsletter on our site called the Live Wire.
Adam: And we’re also introducing this new segment called the Five Wire. So Sarah, are you ready for 5 quick questions?
Sarah:Sure. Fire them off.
Adam: So what’s your favorite area in Vancouver?
Sarah:Are we talking Vancouver as a whole like the North Shore included or just Vancouver.
Adam: Just Vancouver.
Adam: Okay. Favorite restaurant or bar?
Sarah:Oh man, that one is tough. I would have to say Local because it’s just so fun.
Matt:Awesome. So where do you take someone from out of town first place?
Sarah:Lynn Canyon in North Van.
Adam: West side mansion or downtown penthouse?
Sarah:West side mansion.
Matt:Angelina or Jen?
Matt:Ooh, that’s a surprise actually. All right, there we go, that’s the Five Wire.
Adam: There’s a bonus question. Betty or Veronica?
Sarah:Betty or Veronica?
Sarah:Oh. Really different. Probably going for Veronica on that one.
Matt:It’s funny, you know, the last episode Adam and I were preaching about how it’s important to have a team in place and we said that the property manager is a really useful member of a team and maybe in closing we’ll just say we work with you all the time Sarah and you are a fantastic resource. So how can people get in touch with you?
Sarah:Oh, thanks guys. You can always send an email to our general email address. It’s firstname.lastname@example.org or you can give my cell phone a call at any time. It’s 604 230 6755.
Adam: Okay, well, hey Sarah, thank you very much for your time.
Matt:Yeah, thanks for your time and insight.
Sarah:Yeah, no problem guys, any time.
Matt:So there you have it folks, our chat about the current rental market with Sarah Penman of Penman Properties.
Adam: It’s always a pleasure talking to Sarah, she’s always insightful and she knows her stuff for sure.
Matt:She definitely knows her stuff, I mean 300 doors, it’s impossible not to, she’s got her finger on the pulse.
Adam: When does she find time to eat or sleep or have a significant other or whatever. All those things people like to do.
Matt:Yeah, no one is going to criticize on her work ethic, it’s for sure.
Adam: Yeah, no kidding. So Matt, we’re coming back next week, we’ve got a great episode, we’ve got Sean Anderson who is a….
Matt:…fantastic building inspector and great guest. We also should say we’ve got that new website, again, VancouverRealEstatePodcast.com.
Adam: Go check it out, it’s your number one source for on the ground Vancouver real estate news with the city’s best insiders.
Matt:Yeah and come sign up for the VREP Live Wire, that’s going to be…
Adam: You never know when you’re going to get but you’re going to get it once a week.
Matt:It’s going to be good. It’s going to be good.
Adam: For sure. So Matt, how can people reach you?
Matt: 778-847-2854 or email@example.com
Adam: Or you can try me at 778-866-4574 or firstname.lastname@example.org
Matt:We also got that non-partisan line.
Adam: email@example.com. So have a great week, come back and join us next week on Wednesday and we’ll look forward to that.
Matt:Absolutely, take care guys.
Outro:Two guys with faces for radio. Subscribe today!